Coal Bed Methane

[Maggie 65]

Over the last few years, as the price of natural gas and oil became more expensive, the extraction industry investigated new methods for getting fuel out of the ground from sites which were previously thought uneconomical.  We have all heard of fracking by now, a controversial method of breaking up channels in bed rock to release shale gas.  (causing earthquakes in Blackpool). http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/energy/8864669/Cuadrilla-admits-drilling-caused-Blackpool-earthquakes.html

 

A second method for getting gas out of the ground has also been developed, Coal Bed Methane extraction entails drilling down to a coal seam, then pumping out ground water to release pressure and release methane which had been trapped in the coal. The drill head would have capture tanks for the water, and (depending on the purity of the methane) pipes to carry the gas (CBM) into the existing gas pipeline infrastructure.

 

The anti fracking movement have also 'adopted' CBM and confuse the 2 on maps, campaigns etc.  http://frack-off.org.uk/the-big-picture/   and our local group, called the North east Wales anti Fracking Network  https://www.facebook.com/NEWAFAN

 

I don't think this confusion is very helpful.  We have 2 different methods with different capabilities and different problems.  The main problems from CBM are pollution, with the possibility of gas (methane, carbon dioxide) ,escaping out into the atmosphere, and more problematically, the large amounts of water released from the ground typically contain  dissolved salts which pollute and can kill livestock. http://pubs.usgs.gov/sir/2011/5196/ is a scientific study, and there are lots of anecdotal stories on sites such as Frack-Off. 

 

 

There are 3 potential CBM sites with planning permission in our area, all (now) owned by Dart Energy, an Australian Company specializing in CBM. http://www.dartenergy.com.au/,  Brookfield Farm Babbinswood (Whittington), Old Marton Farm, New Marton, and Duddleston. The Duddleston one is part of PEDL 185  an onland area licenced for extraction of gas. It is part of the 'Cheshire' reserves. http://www.dartenergy.com.au/page/Worldwide/United_Kingdom/Cheshire/

 

The Dep of  Energy and Climate Change licences online areas for extraction and has a map here https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/197090/landfields_lics.pdf

 

 

I can only find local details from 2009 when people were objecting to 'future' drilling at New Marton and Babbinswood.  Does anyone know whether any drilling has yet taken place?  and if so, whether they found suitable reserves of gas?

 

This is something we need to be aware of, and to watch out for in future developments.  North Shropshire is also an aquifer for drinking water for Shropshire, so water pollution would be disastrous not only for nature and habitat but also for people.

 

 

 

 

[leebarnfield 30]

Here are the planning applications for the areas in St.Martins, from a company called Composite Energy which became Dart Energy as you mentioned..........

 

http://planningpa.shropshire.gov.uk/online-applications/advancedSearchResults.do?action=firstPage&searchCriteria.reference=10%2F00909%2FMAW&searchType=Application

 

http://planningpa.shropshire.gov.uk/online-applications/advancedSearchResults.do?action=firstPage&searchCriteria.reference=09%2F01853%2FMAW&searchType=Application

 

 

Looking at them briefly, they appear to be for exploratory drill holes.  Not sure if you can find out the details of the investigation.

 

The Frack Off site is of course very one sided, marking every site with a skull and cross bones.

[Maggie 65]

Oh look, here's another, rather more environmentally unreliable thing to do with underground resources. 'Underground Coal Gassification' plans for Dee estuary. 

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/oil-industry-expert-reveals-plans-3867952

 

Think this method involves heat to break up coal seams and release a mixture of gasses, including polluting gasses.

This is from the Environment Agency:

 

Underground Coal Gasification (UCG) involves the gasification of the coal in-situ by drilling boreholes into the seam, injecting water/oxygen mixtures down one pipe, igniting and partially combusting the coal and extracting the gasification products (known as syngas) through the other pipe. It produces a mixture of gases, (mostly carbon monoxide, carbon dioxide, hydrogen and methane) that can be processed to provide fuels for power generation, vehicle fuels and chemical feed-stocks.

 

http://www.environment-agency.gov.uk/business/topics/122756.aspx

 

but doesn't appear that any permissions have been given for this anywhere near us.

[Maggie 65]

This thing in the Guardian is actually about Coal Bed methane, not fracking, although it confuses the two.  But it does document some of the CBM polution problems from Australia,  and indicates that other areas in britain where exploration licences have been awarded are getting worried, so why aren't we discussing this issue here?

 

 http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2013/jun/28/fracking-dash-gas-rural-england

 

 

 

(CO, this is wider than just St Martins, is it possible to move the thread to Coffee Lounge?)

[Simple Simon 36]

I did see a programme on telly the other day on this subject. It did suggest that the leaks into the water supply was the result of poor practice and that the quakes are a natural result of any kind of underground working (coal mining, for example).

 

The programme didn't address the problem of burning yet more fossil fuels and releasing more pollution into the atmosphere, so there is a debate to be had here.

 

On a personal note, I sometimes feel my regular updates in the Coffee Lounge maybe stifling other more interesting conversations. If this is the case, let me know and I'll restrict my additions to the "Sustainable Transport" thread.

[Laura 5]

It would all surely be a lot easier to go back to mining, we surely have the ability to clean the coal these days, this could be used in Coal fired stations thus giving work back to miners and others again. Wind turbines are useless and kill the wildlife, case in point rare birds and eagles killed recently. So unsightly resulting in less tourism in area's which rely on this to survive. Even Germany which has a proliferation of  so called eco energy has started rebuilding coal fired stations to combat the loss of energy. We cannot be the only country which will allow our manufacturing to decline altogether and unless we are willing to build a bubble around our atmosphere our small amount of savings on CO2 is minimal in contrast to the developing world. In a couple of years we could see rationing back for energy as it was in the 70's.  Start to stack up on your candles!!!!

[Maggie 65]

Well, since we started this thread the idea of fracking has become a hot potato. But still everyone persists in calling all these new methods to extract energy from underground 'Fracking'.  There is an interesting statement from Owen Paterson in the Shropshire Star today  http://www.shropshirestar.com/news/2013/08/24/shropshire-should-welcome-fracking-says-mp-owen-paterson/

 

and this week John Vidal wrote an informative piece about Hydraulic Fracking (to give it its proper title) for The Guardian.  http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2013/aug/19/fracks-figures-big-questions-hydraulic-fracturing

 

Does anyone know what is happening at the 3 exploration areas around here?

[Maggie 65]

Oswestryi have posted a comment on gas extraction in the Oswestry area.  Bit emotive to my mind, but it contains a little film which is worth looking at.

http://www.oswestryi.com/?p=770#comment-115

[Maggie 65]

I've just emailed Dart Exploration, to find out more, and will try to do a display in Oswestry Museum.  I am working on one about the mining of the area, and this is really part of all that too.  

[Maggie 65]

Well finally people are waking up to this CBM extraction stuff in our area.  There is a useful post on https://www.facebook.com/oswestryi   and a link to this site, http://www.fraw.org.uk/extreme_marches/index.shtml  

The Northeast Wales antifracking network continues to post up links an information, although to my mind it is a bit too 'campaigny'  and so doesn't give all sides of an argument but nevertheless is doing a grand job of keeping us all informed. https://www.facebook.com/NEWAFAN

Personally I have not made up my mind about whether CBM is a good thing or not, because I can see that there are lots of local opportunities offered by this, which are balanced against possible environmental damage,  Therefore we should find out as much as possible and lobby against potentially damaging operations, to ensure that all possible safety measures are put in place as, if and when extraction takes place.

But what do people here think?

[Luke Ashley 0]

No amount of science or robustness of a regulatory regime can prove fracking is safe or ensure the level of safety now or in the future. NOBODY can predict that human error or machine and equipment failure will not occur.

 

But history tells us that the hydrocarbon extraction industry experiences human error and equipment failure on a daily basis resulting in serious injuries and fatalities along with catastrophic environmental damages. In light of this knowledge, and the fact that fracking gone wrong can cause irreversible damage to, aquifers, soil, air quality and the climate, that affect the majority, the long-term impacts that surround the shale and coal bed methane extraction industries outweigh, * BY FAR*, the short term economic advantages to be gained by a select few. One third of government ministers linked to UK companies fuelling climate change.
 

Neither can anybody predict whether natural events such as earthquakes, ground movements or build up in formation pressures will or will not occur during drilling, production or long after plug and abandonment that can impact on the integrity of a well.

 

Total global ban. Nothing less will do.

[Luke Ashley 0]

I added a few links to back up what I wrote above. Must be one of those forums where I need to have made a certain amount of posts before links are allowed. Sorry for sounding like I know what I`m talking about and people should listen.

[Maggie 65]

I can't see any links.  

[leebarnfield 30]

Hi Luke Ashley

 

Firstly welcome to the forum, I checked out a few of your links and removed them.  I am happy for you to join our forum and give factual, unbiased information about energy extraction specifically in our area, however be aware that this is a local community forum and I don't want it to be a platform for any potential larger scale campaigning.

[Luke Ashley 0]

Hi Luke Ashley

 

Firstly welcome to the forum, I checked out a few of your links and removed them.  I am happy for you to join our forum and give factual, unbiased information about energy extraction specifically in our area, however be aware that this is a local community forum and I don't want it to be a platform for any potential larger scale campaigning.

I see. Perhaps you could check the rest of the thread  and remove some links unrelated to the local area. Being that this is an unbiased Forum.

Now I have to spend some time looking through other threads to make sure there has not been any `Campaigning`. I would hate to think I`ve been singled out as a `troublesome` campaigner by adding my first ever post to an already established thread if there are others who are obviously freely campaigning. 

[leebarnfield 30]

As I mentioned, I have no problem in you joining the forum and giving factual and unbiased information about energy extraction in the locality the forum covers.

 

You will notice that the 'campaigns' you are highlighting are specifically about our area.

[Maggie 65]

I have just spoken to someone (in Kelvin Hall's dept ) whose name I did not get,  in Shropshire Council.  Two of the exploration planning applications have expired and the other one is about to expire, and the Company has done nothing with these.  The planning dept do not think that the company will proceed in this form with drilling, but may do exploration with lesser impact which does not need planning permission.

 

I was intrigued because the latest press release from government about cash incentives to councils to allow fracking included the exploration licence area under us,  but the guy from Shropshire Council does not think that this cash incentive would also cover CBM.   

[Maggie 65]

If Dart decide to do exploration drills in our area this blog about what has happened very quickly near Farndon indicates what it will be like.  All the gear associated with one drill, plus heavy traffic, plus demonstrators and security have an impact.  This makes for quite an interesting read. http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2014/03/515923.html 

[Luke Ashley 0]

That`s exactly right Maggie. That link to the blog is a very good example of what we can expect in ANY area of the UK. And this is why 

leebarnfield needs to be a little more lenient in how he moderates the thread.
One cannot talk about the potential impacts of extreme energy exploration and exploitation in a particular area if it has not happened yet. All we can do is tell people what is happening in other areas and if you have been researching for 4 years as I have, you can work out what the next moves will be and how the frackers operate. They are like dodgy car sales reps to start with and sell a very convincing story about how it will only be exploration. This is just a way of getting their foot jammed in the door. Once that happens, any Council or community will find it very difficult to what they REALLY have planned. We are told we should consider exploration planning applications on their own merit. Well to do that, you HAVE to consider what has happened in other parts of the country and how extensions to planning permission are applied for and before you know it, your area has become an industrialised fracking zone with toxic radioactive chemical wastes being dumped into nearby waterways because the water treatment facilities are not equipped to handle such waste.

So my advice is to keep the chain on the door when they come knocking. Give yourself all the time you need to properly asses the dangers and impacts. Make sure that every single household in the proposed affected area know about the proposals. This could save the council and local police a LOT of money down the line. Whatever the frackers try to bribe your council with will be minuscule compared to the cost of policing future protests. Have a think about why these protests are happening. They are for the same reason women took to the streets to fight for equal rights, It`s because they and we anti frackers KNOW we are right and that fracking and extreme energy are wrong.

If people do as I have done, and do their OWN research rather than jumping on some sound bite bandwagon in support of the Tory Government, people will realise that a shale gas revolution in the UK needs to be fiercly opposed as it has been done in many other towns, cities and countries around the world.

People need to try and not focus too much on the word `fracking` and potential water contamination. People need to take a look at the much wider picture and you cannot do that by ordering people to give factual and unbiased information about energy extraction in the locality the forum covers. Your local community is my local community when it comes to shale and coal bed methane extraction. If you know the geology, you will realise there are no borders and that we could be seeing drilling rigs from Shrewsbury to Chester. What happens in your community could have a knock on effect in my community and so on. 

[Maggie 65]

Well yes, I do know geology, which is why I started looking at this in the first place, several years ago when the planning permissions were submitted for local test drills (which have now been taken over by Dart, 2 have lapsed, one is close to it's lapse date), i.e. before all the fuss about fracking, which, by the way, is a  different thing  to CBM extraction and is exploiting different rock type in different areas. There are lots of ex-miners living in our area, and the extent of the coal seams and where there are still big resources left at depth are common knowledge.  On the other hand, the Bowland shales underly the coal measures, and sit on top of the deltaic Millstone grits (Cefn-y-Fedw Sandstones round here) which lap up over the underlying rocks to the south.  The Bowland Shales come to the surface just about to the south of Wrexham (and so obviously will have degassed close to surface).

Map Here   https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/226874/BGS_DECC_BowlandShaleGasReport_MAIN_REPORT.pdf

 The coal seams formed later in a series of subsiding basinsoverlapping the underlying shales and sandstones. (hence the ability to accumulate a thick sequence of coals and shales and why there are no gas shales under the local coal measures).  

 Shales need to be broken up (fracked) to release the gasses.  Gas will seep out of coals naturally once pressure is reduced, so can be collected more' easily'.

 

Here is a recent report which suggests that the shale gas reserves are greater than first thought.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-26440101 

.

It will be interesting to see what they find with the exploratory drill in Farndon, as I suspect this will decide whether they will exploit the planning permission sites in St Martins and Babbinswood. It would appear from what was said by the representative of Shrops Council, on a previous post, that they may not need plannng permission for a scaled down exploratory drill.

We watch with interest.

 

 

[Maggie 65]

Looks like Dart are going to start drilling at the Duddleston site, they are talking to Shropshire Council about whether they need an EIA first.... but planning permission has lapsed, don't they need planning permission first?  http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-shropshire-26818700

[Luke Ashley 0]

Yes Maggie. We will be watching this very closely.
Good news for Wrexham residents though.

Controversial plans to test drill for gas in Wrexham thrown out

[Maggie 65]

I have commented on this piece from the Shropshire Star today about Dart's renewal of its planning application at Duddleston.  Note that there is now a Frack-free North Shropshire group,  see this from the Shrops Star article if you are interested.  I am beginning to get fed up with the umbrella 'Frack' for several very different methods.

 

 Green Party member and Oswestry town councillor Duncan Kerr said Frack-Free North Shropshire had been formed to fight the proposals and would be holding public meetings at Dudleston Heath Village Hall on April 22 at 7.30pm and Hermon Chapel on Chapel Street, Oswestry, on April 24 at 7.30pm.

 

 

 http://www.shropshirestar.com/news/2014/04/17/owen-paterson-backs-shropshire-gas-drilling-plans/#comments

[Maggie 65]

There are 3 historical applications for drilling in our area, all of which have lapsed, but could all be subject to a renewal reapplication. 

 

DUDDLESTON GAS DRILLING

 

Here is the current application, or rather, I assume, renewal of the previous planning application.  there is no info from Dart about the plans, but there are the written responses from Natural England and the Environment Agency. This is due to be determined on the 23rd April.(although next North Area Planning Commitee is on 6th May).  A report in the Shropshire Star suggests that this is a pre application to determine whether an Environmental Impact Assessment would be needed, and that the full application will be submitted in May.  http://www.shropshirestar.com/news/2014/04/15/gas-drilling-in-shropshire-takes-a-step-closer/

 

http://planningpa.shropshire.gov.uk/online-applications/applicationDetails.do?activeTab=relatedCases&keyVal=N31TJ9TD01O00

 

and this is the previous application,from 2010,  to retrieve a coal core, which contains maps and diagrams of their plans.  

 

http://planningpa.shropshire.gov.uk/online-applications/applicationDetails.do?activeTab=documents&keyVal=KYYTOBTD06Z00

 

NEW MARTON

 

This is the original application, to obtain a coal core,, from 2009

 

http://planningpa.shropshire.gov.uk/online-applications/applicationDetails.do?activeTab=summary&keyVal=KNFRFPTD07200

 

BABBINSWOOD

 

This is the original appllcation from 2009, to obtain a coal core.

 

http://planningpa.shropshire.gov.uk/online-applications/applicationDetails.do?activeTab=summary&keyVal=KMELQ3TD06Z00

 

Dart now own exploration rights to all 3 sites.

[Maggie 65]

Don't forget there is a meeting about 'fracking' in North Shropshire this Thursday, in the Hermon in Oswestry at 7.30.  and there is a campaigning facebook page been set up too,  https://www.facebook.com/pages/Frack-Free-North-Shropshire/616884318399368?fref=nf